Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

jltursan
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor jltursan » 20 Sep 2017 12:14

Último mensaje de la página anterior:

That's great!, so no need to convert any other PCM routine. This one sounds fab, longest examples, "THANKYOU" or "BYEBYE" are really impressive.
Of course, this quality has a price, the samples are a little big, from 8Kb to 15Kb :-(. Maybe pser1 can apply the interpolation algorithm he developed in his own replay routine, or simply use a lower resolution routine. The 4-bit is really small and simple; but quality is a bit crappy.

<offtopic>That common source corde project emulator (adapted by Yoshida-San) is giving me some headaches, since a couple of versions it doesn't loads disk images (D77 or D88) right, it simply fails to mount them. I need to use an older version that works flawlessly. Pretty annoying :-( </offtopic>

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pser1
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 20 Sep 2017 17:36

jltursan escribió:I promise you ;-)
I've never seen a FM-7 with any other model of PSG. I want to check the Secoinsa; but I guess that it'll mount the same IC.

Before looking at the schematics from the I/O magazine (April 1983) page 299, I knew that Tandy used the same chip AY-3-8913
in their Speech-Sound cartridge. Why? just becuase it was much cheaper because it doesn't have the two parallel 8bit I/O ports
that come inside its big brother 8910.
If the FM-7 has the big one inside, then the IO schematics MUST have a lot of other errors because I am sure that the 'extra' 16 I/O pins
should have been used for other tasks (?)
Well, if the chip is really an AY-3-8910, then it is much easier to program, according to Simon Jonassen experiences.
He converted his 2-voice player to use the CoCo Sound-Speech cartridge, so I hope to find that demo. No need to reinvent the wheel.
About how the PSG manages the sound internally, of course it have DAC architecture; but I mean that you must forgot all about working with it as if it was a real DAC, you don't dump raw data; instead you must "program" the OSG to operate as you want and it does the task concurrently the main processor.

I hope that Simon's example for CoCo/Dragon will be clear enough for me too.
Right now, I can only offer you simple Z80 sources to create some basic sounds, just to familiarize with the chip; but usually, when you want to squeeze the power of the PSG, you must use one of the routines already developed. Check for example Caverns of Titan, a MSX game that I programmed several years ago; what you hear is the Vortex Tracker sound (PT3 format), the replayer can play songs and generate SFX at the same time without too much effort.

Thanks a lot, José Luis. I will save this address for future use. Right now I cannot open more subprojects. I have no free time with the two
I am working right now ... and might be entering a very challenging one for the Dragon in the very near future.
cheers
pere

jltursan
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor jltursan » 20 Sep 2017 18:33

The AY-3-8910 is the same used in the Dragon 32 Sound Extensión Module :-)

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pser1
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 20 Sep 2017 19:07

jltursan escribió:The AY-3-8910 is the same used in the Dragon 32 Sound Extensión Module :-)

But you will not find one of those in the wildnet, instead you will find some of the CoCo at very affordable prices.
I would love to have one of the Dragon by J.C.B. Microsystems
regards
pere

jltursan
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor jltursan » 20 Sep 2017 19:09

Hehe, sure, maybe the PCB can be cloned with some patience :-)

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pser1
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 20 Sep 2017 19:35

jltursan escribió:Hehe, sure, maybe the PCB can be cloned with some patience :-)

maybe ... there is some info in that page on the WorldOfDragon, but who will dare to do that?
cheers
pere

Ps I remeber someone that told us that he was going to make some DragonPlus boards from scratch
and he showed the design for the circuit board ... but he has disappeared, no more news :-(
http://archive.worldofdragon.org/phpBB3 ... DragonPlus

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pser1
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 20 Sep 2017 22:14

@malikto999
I forgot to put this question ...
If the FM-7 has always had an AY-3-8910 instead of the 8913 depicted in the IO magazine from April 1983,
Does anybody have a schematic of that computer we could use with confidence?
Thanks in advance
pere

malikto999
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor malikto999 » 21 Sep 2017 01:54

pser1 escribió:@malikto999
I forgot to put this question ...
If the FM-7 has always had an AY-3-8910 instead of the 8913 depicted in the IO magazine from April 1983,
Does anybody have a schematic of that computer we could use with confidence?
Thanks in advance
pere


There seems to be two types of PSG installed in FM-7, AY-3-8910 and AY-3-8913 depending on the lot.
Fujitsu's manual also had both entries.
https://archive.org/details/FM7SystemSpecifications
(Chapter1-17, also, in chapter 1-47 there is a description that "PSG used for FM-7 is AY-3-8913 type.")

The circuit diagram of FM-7 was also published in No. 2-3 of Oh! FM.
I confirmed it, but it was also described in AY-3-8913.
I do not know other circuit diagrams.

jltursan
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor jltursan » 21 Sep 2017 10:10

Here's another one...with an AY-3-8910 as PSG :-)

FM7 schematics - I/O magazine 83/04

I've uploaded it to my Google Drive, seems that RW's forum engine doesn't support the upload of PDF files...:-(

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pser1
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 21 Sep 2017 10:18

jltursan escribió:Here's another one...with an AY-3-8910 as PSG :-)
FM7 schematics - I/O magazine 83/04
I've uploaded it to my Google Drive, seems that RW's forum engine doesn't support the upload of PDF files...:-(

Hi,
this is the magazine I was talking about, the one I have printed out and for sure the sound chip in page 299
is the smallest one: AY-3-8913
cheers
pere

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pser1
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 21 Sep 2017 10:36

malikto999 escribió:There seems to be two types of PSG installed in FM-7, AY-3-8910 and AY-3-8913 depending on the lot.
Fujitsu's manual also had both entries.
https://archive.org/details/FM7SystemSpecifications
(Chapter1-17, also, in chapter 1-47 there is a description that "PSG used for FM-7 is AY-3-8913 type.")

We already have this document, it is very complete but for us it is as if it were written in japanese ;-)
A monster effort would be needed to translate these technical infos, that would really help us a lot
if we had them.
The circuit diagram of FM-7 was also published in No. 2-3 of Oh! FM.
I confirmed it, but it was also described in AY-3-8913.
I do not know other circuit diagrams.

It doesn't matter which of them was built, the sound part is equivalent.
My only doubt was ... Did they take advantage of the extra 16 pins that could be used as I/O programmable pins?
If they had, then the schematics should show these extra pins ... I don't find them anywhere :-(
thanks a lot
cheers
pere

jltursan
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor jltursan » 21 Sep 2017 11:49

I stand corrected, the AY-3-8910 is part of the PC-6001 schematic that comes next in the magazine, I mixed both in the PDF. The FM7 one is indeed an AY-3-8913.

Btw, I've checked the AY's PCB and pins 6-21 are not connected. I've never seen a FM-New7; but given that Fujitsu tried by all means to reduce costs and raise the integration level, seems an obvious move from 8910 to the smaller 24pin 8913. No idea if the schematics published back in '83 already reflected this evolution.

I've edited the above post to link to the correct schematic file...

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pser1
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 21 Sep 2017 18:49

Hello,
does anybody know of this board?
I will appreciate any info about its possible use (?)
cheers
pere
Epson Module traces.jpg
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 21 Sep 2017 18:52

maybe that way could be easier ... despite the size
regards
pere
Epson Module components-small.jpg
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jltursan
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor jltursan » 21 Sep 2017 19:16

It's a disk interface board that fits in the left most internal slot of the FM7. It can be used like the external one, you can plug the 34 pin cable of, for example, your Disk Station into the connector.
Beware that you can't plug both interfaces (the internal and the external) at the same time, it could be potentially harmful.

I suppose that this card originally came with the first Epson drives, TF-10 and TF-20 for the FM7 computer.

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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 21 Sep 2017 19:46

jltursan escribió:It's a disk interface board that fits in the left most internal slot of the FM7. It can be used like the external one, you can plug the 34 pin cable of, for example, your Disk Station into the connector.
Beware that you can't plug both interfaces (the internal and the external) at the same time, it could be potentially harmful.
I suppose that this card originally came with the first Epson drives, TF-10 and TF-20 for the FM7 computer.

Hi,
great info, thanks a bunch!
I thought that, too, but I have not been able to find any info about it in the wildnet!
This module should be connected in one slot (left most), OK. So it is just an adapter, because I cannot see any kind of 'big chip'
as the western digital drive controllers we are used to see in our controllers.
So this is the 'same' that lies inside the 'adapter' of the big unit to the external connector I have right now, is this right?
And this implies that an 'actual' controller is needed for every connected drive, and this is inside the 'big' unit, I assume.

If I get one of my 360k floppy drives from the PC era, that have a connector with 34 pins too (Shugart type circuit board)
Could they be inter-connected without damaging any of them, with a suitable clable?
Mybe Malik knows about these tweakings!
Seems interesting enough to try to go deeper into it!
cheers
pere

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pser1
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Re: Thread in English for Fujitsu FM7

Mensajepor pser1 » 21 Sep 2017 19:49

@jltursan
assuming that this module works alright, could it be connected to a primary disk as Fujitsu standards, or even to both primary and secundary?

This opens another possibility ... but you said that ONLY one can survive ;-) I mean external OR internal but not both to deal with
four drives, for instance
thanks
pere


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